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Title: An idea to bring back classic Cops and Robbers
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#1
I know I'm new to the forums, but I've been playing on Code 3: Cops and Robbers since early-mid 2016. And it was the first legitimate gamemode that got me interested in trying out gamemodes aside from Sandbox and DarkRP. However, all I see now is the crippled shell of a gamemode that had so much potential. After exploring the forums for a little bit, I saw the post by Goigle that the server was actually going to close, but never happened due to popular demand. I know I haven't been the most reputable person in the community but I've genuinely thought and still believe there’s so much potential to this server. But at the server’s currently developed state and a dwindling player base, I don’t think pushing forward with the current changes would be ideal to revive the player base (If that’s what you’re going for.)

So here’s what I propose:
  • Switch the map back to RP Rockford or something close to it. The reason why I purpose this is that the map is easy for new players to understand with the layout fitting alot better for the gamemode than the server’s current map, rp_unioncity. The problem with Union City is that it’s very dull, unappealing, cluttered, and the overall layout not fitting with the gamemode. I understand it's got more buildings and a little more variety to the kind of stores you can find, but I don't think it really works tbh. 
  • Go back to basics. What I enjoyed about Classic Cops and Robbers the most was I could start off small, maybe build a crew, rob stores, fight off cops and grow as either a solo criminal or a crime organization. Nowadays, I don’t know what it is but I feel the server adds more layers to those core ideas of the gameplay to keep people playing. Which makes people lose interest quickly. 
  • Maybe add more jobs? I don’t know, that idea has always fascinated me since I first started playing. I know it sounds crazy, but I kinda like the idea that maybe implementing side-jobs that work for either cops or robbers and assisting them with their jobs would be interesting. At this point from my time playing on Cops and Robbers, I feel that people already add roleplay to the server so why not implementing a concept like this while still sticking to the core values and gameplay elements of the classic Cops and Robbers. I’d love to hear you guys’ thoughts on this idea. 
Right now these are my ideas to bring back the Classic Cops and Robbers while coming up with new ideas to add more to the classic formula that was created back in late 2015. I honestly feel that implementing these ideas and reverting back to the classic Cops and Robbers would bring back old, familiar players while introducing new players to a straight-forward, enjoyable and somewhat addictive experience that’ll keep bringing players back for more… Anyways, I’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas about bringing back classic Cops and Robbers.

I’d love to see this happen…

- Hawkeren
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  Goigle
 
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#2
Quote:Switch the map back to RP Rockford or something close to it. The reason why I purpose this is that the map is easy for new players to understand with the layout fitting alot better for the gamemode than the server’s current map, rp_unioncity. The problem with Union City is that it’s very dull, unappealing, cluttered, and the overall layout not fitting with the gamemode. I understand it's got more buildings and a little more variety to the kind of stores you can find, but I don't think it really works tbh. 


Definitely agree with this. There are some things I actually really dig about rp_unioncity like the underground subway network and how most "robbable" locations have more than one entry point. HOWEVER, its layout is too dense and suffers from a lack of sprawling backroads that the previous maps had. There is nothing like the blisteringly fast car chases on the country outskirts of rp_rockford that can be replicated in the new map.

Quote:Go back to basics. What I enjoyed about Classic Cops and Robbers the most was I could start off small, maybe build a crew, rob stores, fight off cops and grow as either a solo criminal or a crime organization. Nowadays, I don’t know what it is but I feel the server adds more layers to those core ideas of the gameplay to keep people playing. Which makes people lose interest quickly. 

Also agree.

The defibrillator feels cheap and totally out of place in a grassroots cops 'n robbers game. I feel that if there should be any sort of revive mechanic in the gamemode whatsoever it should: 
a) only be usable between party members (exclusive to robbers; cops should be able to revive any teammate)
and
b) be the more conventional type of revive mechanic a la Call of Duty Zombies, where a player needs to be static and vulnerable for a few seconds to help their teammate up.

The medical and ammo pouches also feel out of place but they aren't that big of a deal in terms of impact on gameplay compared to the defib.

I'm not sure if this is implemented in the new map, but if the server was to return to rp_rockford the "king of the hill" minigame shouldn't return. It halts the flow of gameplay and, once again, feels totally out of place for this gamemode. Why would the cops or robbers even care about controlling some random factory or house?

One added mechanic that I actually do like: the warehouses. Adds variety to both the gameplay and the methods in which robbers can obtain money. Sometimes when the cops outnumber the robbers, holding up stores becomes extremely difficult, so having the more discrete option of looting warehouses is a great implementation.

Quote:Maybe add more jobs? I don’t know, that idea has always fascinated me since I first started playing. I know it sounds crazy, but I kinda like the idea that maybe implementing side-jobs that work for either cops or robbers and assisting them with their jobs would be interesting. At this point from my time playing on Cops and Robbers, I feel that people already add roleplay to the server so why not implementing a concept like this while still sticking to the core values and gameplay elements of the classic Cops and Robbers. I’d love to hear you guys’ thoughts on this idea. 

This point I feel is not a great suggestion and contradicts your earlier proposal of removing unnecessary complexity. The playerbase is tiny enough as is; diluting the cop-robber binary with neutral classes will lessen the nonstop action that makes the gamemode so awesome.

This is pretty much the only GMOD server I still care about so I really hope that we can eventually return to the glory days of 20+ players online all day every day.

  
 
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#3
(07-20-2019, 07:30 PM)Plastic Man Wrote: Definitely agree with this. I dig the atmosphere of rp_unioncity but its layout is too dense and suffers from a lack of sprawling backroads that the previous maps had. There is nothing like the blisteringly fast car chases on the country outskirts of rp_rockford that can be replicated in the new map.


Also agree.

The defibrillator feels cheap and totally out of place in a grassroots cops 'n robbers game. I feel that if there should be any sort of revive mechanic in the gamemode it: 
a) should only be usable between party members
b) should be the more conventional type of revive mechanic a la Call of Duty Zombies, where another player needs to be vulnerable and static for a few seconds to help a teammate up.

The medical and ammo pouches also feel out of place but they aren't that big of a deal in terms of impact on gameplay compared to the defib.

I'm not sure if this is implemented in the new map, but if the server was to return to rp_rockford the "king of the hill" minigame shouldn't return. It halts the flow of gameplay and, once again, feels totally out of place for this gamemode. Why would the cops or robbers even care about controlling some random factory or house?

One added mechanic that I actually do like: the warehouses. Adds variety to both the gameplay and the methods in which robbers can obtain money. Sometimes when the cops outnumber the robbers, holding up stores becomes extremely difficult, so having the more discrete option of looting warehouses is a great implementation.


This point I feel is not a great suggestion and contradicts your earlier proposal of removing unnecessary complexity. The playerbase is tiny enough as is; diluting the cop-robber binary with neutral classes will lessen the nonstop action that makes the gamemode so awesome.

This is pretty much the only GMOD server I still care about so I really hope that we can eventually return to the glory days of 20+ players online all day every day.

I absolutely agree on your thoughts on the idea of bringing back classic Cops and Robbers, and now that I think about the last idea about potentially adding side-jobs, I agree that it dilutes the cop-robber binary and it'd definitely worsen the intense action of the gamemode itself. I also really like your alternative ideas for the defibrillators and I'm glad you agreed with me regarding the ammo and medic bags being out of place. 

Regarding the "king of the hill" minigame, I agree. I honestly hadn't thought about it while I was typing out this post. But when you brought it up, I remembered how absolutely pointless it was aside from getting a crap-ton of money for your team if you captured it for long enough. And like what you said, I hated the fact it slowed down the flow of gameplay as at any point. People go from robbing stores and warehouses to almost everyone surrounding the capture zone and focusing on that just to get a crap ton of money. 

Overall, I absolutely miss the classic Cops and Robbers, and I hope that the server reverts back to classic Cops and Robbers someday. And hopefully, alot more people notice this post and support the idea to bring classic Cops and Robbers back again.

  
 
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#4
Allo. I strongly appreciate you taking the time out of your day to type this post. And I agree with most of your suggestions to bring this server back to life. I'll go into detail for each of your suggestions and tell you my opinion on them. 

Quote:Switch the map back to RP Rockford or something close to it.

I really like this suggestion because I agree that rp_unioncity isn't the best map for this gamemode. Union City is too condensed and it's just kinda overwhelming, especially for newbies. Hell I've played on that map for a while and I'm pretty sure I haven't discovered the whole map yet. Rockford's got a lot more personality to it and it's layout is indeed better. 

I also don't think that there's another map that could replace something like Rockford. Although the layout of the map is simple, it's somehow unique at the same time. 

Quote:Go back to basics.

I wasn't exactly sure what you meant so I read Plastic Man's reply to this suggestion saying that the defibrillator didn't belong in the gamemode. So I guess I'll add my opinion to that. The defibrillators have been in the gamemode for a long time now and when I think about it in a broader sense it is sort of OP. Personally I've never had an issue with them but I can't say the same for other players. The removal of them doesn't sound like a bad idea as players will probably be a lot more cautious and it would make firefights more tense.

Regarding the medic bag. Before you used to buy three of these healthpacks. You would press Q and then 5 seconds later you would get healed like 50 HP I think. They weren't bad at all but it was sort of annoying to have to go back to base to buy them. What we have now is a bag that you chuck on the ground and it would heal everyone (regardless of team) in little increments. 

I abused this quite a bit as it was most effective when you had a bunch of medic bags bunched up together. For example, if you and a teammate dropped a medic bag next to each other, it's basically twice as effective. If you got shot with a Nitro for 99 HP, you would instantly get healed to full HP before you even realized what happened cause the medic bags start healing as soon as you don't have 100 HP. Now if you get yourself a decent group of people with medic bags and you bunch them up all together, you're basically unstoppable. You would need to get shot quite a few time before dying.

So I'm interested in seeing what it'd be like if we reverted back to how players used to heal. 

Quote:Maybe add more jobs?

I'm not too keen on this one. 

Eventually Goigle will see this post and decide what actions he wants to take. Perhaps this post was the breath of fresh air the community needed. hehe fresh air
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#5
(07-21-2019, 04:30 AM)Twice Wrote: Allo. I strongly appreciate you taking the time out of your day to type this post. And I agree with most of your suggestions to bring this server back to life. I'll go into detail for each of your suggestions and tell you my opinion on them. 


I really like this suggestion because I agree that rp_unioncity isn't the best map for this gamemode. Union City is too condensed and it's just kinda overwhelming, especially for newbies. Hell I've played on that map for a while and I'm pretty sure I haven't discovered the whole map yet. Rockford's got a lot more personality to it and it's layout is indeed better. 

I also don't think that there's another map that could replace something like Rockford. Although the layout of the map is simple, it's somehow unique at the same time. 


I wasn't exactly sure what you meant so I read Plastic Man's reply to this suggestion saying that the defibrillator didn't belong in the gamemode. So I guess I'll add my opinion to that. The defibrillators have been in the gamemode for a long time now and when I think about it in a broader sense it is sort of OP. Personally I've never had an issue with them but I can't say the same for other players. The removal of them doesn't sound like a bad idea as players will probably be a lot more cautious and it would make firefights more tense.

Regarding the medic bag. Before you used to buy three of these healthpacks. You would press Q and then 5 seconds later you would get healed like 50 HP I think. They weren't bad at all but it was sort of annoying to have to go back to base to buy them. What we have now is a bag that you chuck on the ground and it would heal everyone (regardless of team) in little increments. 

I abused this quite a bit as it was most effective when you had a bunch of medic bags bunched up together. For example, if you and a teammate dropped a medic bag next to each other, it's basically twice as effective. If you got shot with a Nitro for 99 HP, you would instantly get healed to full HP before you even realized what happened cause the medic bags start healing as soon as you don't have 100 HP. Now if you get yourself a decent group of people with medic bags and you bunch them up all together, you're basically unstoppable. You would need to get shot quite a few time before dying.

So I'm interested in seeing what it'd be like if we reverted back to how players used to heal. 


I'm not too keen on this one. 

Eventually Goigle will see this post and decide what actions he wants to take. Perhaps this post was the breath of fresh air the community needed. hehe fresh air

Thank you for your kind words, glad you're fond of the idea to bring back classic Cops and Robbers Smile
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#6
this sounds interesting
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#7
Thanks for the post. I did the classic Goigle summer move of over-extending myself and I've been so bogged down with my internship and summer classes that I haven't had a chance to do much on the server.

(07-20-2019, 03:09 AM)hawkeren Wrote:
  • Switch the map back to RP Rockford or something close to it. The reason why I purpose this is that the map is easy for new players to understand with the layout fitting alot better for the gamemode than the server’s current map, rp_unioncity. The problem with Union City is that it’s very dull, unappealing, cluttered, and the overall layout not fitting with the gamemode. I understand it's got more buildings and a little more variety to the kind of stores you can find, but I don't think it really works tbh. 
  • Go back to basics. What I enjoyed about Classic Cops and Robbers the most was I could start off small, maybe build a crew, rob stores, fight off cops and grow as either a solo criminal or a crime organization. Nowadays, I don’t know what it is but I feel the server adds more layers to those core ideas of the gameplay to keep people playing. Which makes people lose interest quickly. 
  • Maybe add more jobs? I don’t know, that idea has always fascinated me since I first started playing. I know it sounds crazy, but I kinda like the idea that maybe implementing side-jobs that work for either cops or robbers and assisting them with their jobs would be interesting. At this point from my time playing on Cops and Robbers, I feel that people already add roleplay to the server so why not implementing a concept like this while still sticking to the core values and gameplay elements of the classic Cops and Robbers. I’d love to hear you guys’ thoughts on this idea. 

1. Already a WIP. I'm reworking the zones code so I don't have to reset the server's internal database every time I switch maps. Rockford is 100% coming back.

2. Great suggestion. I'll look at removing some stuff (detailed below)

3. It's something I've thought about, without explicitly being a "job". I think there's even an approved suggestion called Contracts or something. Basically, players would get assigned random side missions they could accept / deny such as take out a high priority target (cops eliminating a 6* robber for example), protect a teammate, and a few more I can't name off the top of my head.

(07-20-2019, 07:30 PM)Plastic Man Wrote: Also agree.

The defibrillator feels cheap and totally out of place in a grassroots cops 'n robbers game. I feel that if there should be any sort of revive mechanic in the gamemode whatsoever it should: 
a) only be usable between party members (exclusive to robbers; cops should be able to revive any teammate)
and
b) be the more conventional type of revive mechanic a la Call of Duty Zombies, where a player needs to be static and vulnerable for a few seconds to help their teammate up.

Yeah, the defib does suck tbh. I tried a couple things to balance it but it's just so out of place and unintuitive. They mainly mattered on Paralake where dying was a PITA because it took a bit to get anywhere.
I'll remove it.

(07-20-2019, 07:30 PM)Plastic Man Wrote: The medical and ammo pouches also feel out of place but they aren't that big of a deal in terms of impact on gameplay compared to the defib.
I'm not sure if this is implemented in the new map, but if the server was to return to rp_rockford the "king of the hill" minigame shouldn't return. It halts the flow of gameplay and, once again, feels totally out of place for this gamemode. Why would the cops or robbers even care about controlling some random factory or house?

Yeah, I'll disable KOTH. It's always been kind of a crap-shoot, I kept it in because it added some variety. Back on paralake it was going to be used to win spawn points (such as the high rise apts or the docks), but that doesn't really matter in Rockford or Union City so that change never happened.

In terms of medic / ammo bags, those were always planned to be in the GM. They could use more fine tuning.

(07-21-2019, 04:30 AM)Twice Wrote: Regarding the medic bag. Before you used to buy three of these healthpacks. You would press Q and then 5 seconds later you would get healed like 50 HP I think. They weren't bad at all but it was sort of annoying to have to go back to base to buy them. What we have now is a bag that you chuck on the ground and it would heal everyone (regardless of team) in little increments.

I'm extremely hesitant to revert back to the old healing system as that was barebones and intended to be temporary (otherwise you'd die waaaaaaaaay too quickly.
That said, I'll change medic bags so the healing effect does not stack.


Tl;dr

Rockford is coming back, I just have to refactor some code and I've been really busy (one of my summer class ends this week thankfully).

Defib is going away, alternate revive system might take its place if I get time to code that.

Medic bags will not stack their heals


Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for sticking with the gamemode for so long.
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#8
(07-22-2019, 03:21 AM)Goigle Wrote: Thanks for the post. I did the classic Goigle summer move of over-extending myself and I've been so bogged down with my internship and summer classes that I haven't had a chance to do much on the server.


1. Already a WIP. I'm reworking the zones code so I don't have to reset the server's internal database every time I switch maps. Rockford is 100% coming back.

2. Great suggestion. I'll look at removing some stuff (detailed below)

3. It's something I've thought about, without explicitly being a "job". I think there's even an approved suggestion called Contracts or something. Basically, players would get assigned random side missions they could accept / deny such as take out a high priority target (cops eliminating a 6* robber for example), protect a teammate, and a few more I can't name off the top of my head.


Yeah, the defib does suck tbh. I tried a couple things to balance it but it's just so out of place and unintuitive. They mainly mattered on Paralake where dying was a PITA because it took a bit to get anywhere.
I'll remove it.


Yeah, I'll disable KOTH. It's always been kind of a crap-shoot, I kept it in because it added some variety. Back on paralake it was going to be used to win spawn points (such as the high rise apts or the docks), but that doesn't really matter in Rockford or Union City so that change never happened.

In terms of medic / ammo bags, those were always planned to be in the GM. They could use more fine tuning.


I'm extremely hesitant to revert back to the old healing system as that was barebones and intended to be temporary (otherwise you'd die waaaaaaaaay too quickly.
That said, I'll change medic bags so the healing effect does not stack.


Tl;dr

Rockford is coming back, I just have to refactor some code and I've been really busy (one of my summer class ends this week thankfully).

Defib is going away, alternate revive system might take its place if I get time to code that.

Medic bags will not stack their heals


Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for sticking with the gamemode for so long.

Wow, didn't think this would get any attention. Thank you Goigle and thank you everyone for your kind words on this post. Heart
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#9
I just can't believe how dead this place has became, and its so sad too because I really enjoyed my time here, playing, and being an administrator. I do wish that the spark of this server will come back, maybe one day.
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#10
It happens in a blue moon but most of the time when its busy no staff are on but once we do people start getting off at least that's what happens when I join which isn't to often cuz of work and shit
DEATH HAS SPOKEN!!!

  
 
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